An American journalist living in Alkmaar after spending 10 years in Paris. lunaholland.blogspot.com
Real Dutch women
15 December 2010, by Matt Luna
They are tall, beautiful, confident, often blonde and absolutely everywhere!
Coming to a North Holland town can put one shockingly face-to-face with some of the most interesting women on the planet. They are also comfortable with themselves and can be brutally honest. I could just do a photo essay, but what are these beautiful creatures really like?
I set out for a closer look at Dutch women through the eyes of a photographer, a fashion model and women in local neighbourhoods to see if common threads emerged.
Image source Carin Verbruggen
Confident and down-to-earth
Carin Verbruggen is a renowned Dutch fashion and lingerie photographer who has worked with women from around the world - and the musician Usher - but enjoys working with Dutch women because she says they are "easy going and confident," and that this sets them apart from others. "Dutch girls are open to anything because they have seen more and are honest," she said by telephone.
Carin said about Dutch girls, "You can have a lot of fun with them, and they are not like babies in front of the camera." For American girls, on the other hand, she said, "I have to clear the entire studio when they change their clothes, but Dutch girls can change in a café or car because they are not spoiled and are more honest about themselves."
Sonja, 38, has lived and worked internationally as a fashion model. She exhibited Dutch modesty as she was hesitant to acknowledge that she has appeared on the covers of magazines like Elle, Vogue and Grazia. Sonja said that much of the confidence and comfort seen in Dutch women comes from the nature of the culture itself. "Dutch stay in their comfort zone, like to be normal with less fantasy and are happy with what they have."
Sonja, who does not know Carin, pointed out that Dutch women wear less makeup and are more natural than others internationally.
"There is no bullshit with Dutch women," and that they are "not carried away by the superficial." Conversations among Dutch models, Sonja said, "are not usually about material things, but life and relationships." Sonja’s demeanor supported what I had been hearing as she seemed very much at ease and humorous, maintained piercing eye contact and became passionate on some topics during the interview in a café in Bergen, North Holland.
The physical aspect
Doutzen Kroes and Lara Stone are the glittering hood ornaments of the Dutch fashion hot rod at the moment. Carin and Sonja agree that Kroes and Stone carry themselves well and are prime examples of homegrown beauty (even though Stone is reported to have an English father). The average height of a Dutch woman is around 180cm, or 5' 10", and Dutch women were compared several times to the Swedes, but there is a different bone structure that supports slightly stronger faces.
Sonja said that many women here cast their already modest concerns about beauty aside and focus on living health-conscious lifestyles as they grow older. "They could be more glamorous to feel better about themselves," she said. As they tend to cut their hair shorter than in other cultures and have declining concern for fashionable clothes, Dutch women can appear more masculine than their counterparts.
Carin said because of the clothes, "Sometimes you cannot tell who is the man or the woman." A positive, unanimous agreement was that the women here remain more natural, take care of their health and do not have cosmetic surgery as often.
Aggressive?
I have noticed that Dutch women can be quick to make themselves known or to put someone in their place. Carin said, "Maybe Dutch women are aggressive, but when looking at Southern European countries like Italy and Spain, women are more openly aggressive." At Amsterdam Central Station, Helen, 33, said that Dutch women "can dominate the men even in what they wear and who their friends are." Marlaan, 21, agreed, "Women here are in charge in most cases, and are known for speaking what they think, even too much sometimes."
Sonja said, "We are fighting to be equal with men, but sometimes we over-rule the man and things go out of balance." Sonja went on to say that Dutch men are not intimidated by Dutch women, but other nationalities are. Regina, 20, was more forward on the issue when she said, "It is definitely true that we are bossy and want to take control of men. It feels nice to have control." However, Silvana, 24, disagreed when she said, "Women who say they are in charge are just the ones who want it." I realise that this subject is far from unique to Dutch culture, but the perception of the woman in charge seems more prevalent than in many other places. And even with this power debate in mind, most Dutch women I have met have been approachable, friendly and easy to talk to.
Blondes VS Non-blondes
Our visiting friends have been amazed at the nearly comical high ratio of blondes in this area, because Swedish women have traditionally held the blonde reputation. Many Holland-bound tourists only visit Amsterdam, where the population is more a mix of Dutch, tourists and immigrants. However, a Dutch friend who lives in small North Holland village said that their children’s school class photos consisted of "12 blond boys and 12 blonde girls."
I became curious if there was a social status attached to being a blonde, or is it just normal?
Annet, a 37 year-old brunette, was in Amsterdam with her gray-blonde mother and blonde sister. She said that she dyed her hair brown to look more intelligent. Her mother, Greetje, 65, grinned when she heard Annet’s comment and said about herself and other daughter, "We are intelligent blondes." Marlaan said that some tension exists between hair colors in high school, but people have more important things to worry about as they get older, and Sonja remarked that there is competition between blonde and non-blonde models. But most women I asked said that the typical blonde jokes and humorous perceptions of silliness exist here, but there is not actually a social gap or competition between the hair colors.
Image source Carin Verbruggen
Sex, drugs and rock & roll
Maybe some readers are asking themselves, "Do these Dutch girls like to party?" I have discovered a marked open-mindedness, but also an avoidance of excess with Dutch women. Carin said, "Dutch girls are not conservative at all" and that they were more world conscious after seeing sex, drugs and homosexuality treated as normal in their home culture. She went on to add that Dutch girls "Would not listen to conservative voices anyway if preached."
Thumbnail source and more photos at Matt's blog.
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WRITE A COMMENT
I often find articles that try to quantify the "real" something end up stereotyping, generalizing, and objectifying that something and this article is no different. I doubt these women, two of whom are involved in the fashion industry, can say what a "real Dutch woman" is despite The Netherlands being their country of birth just as I would never try to make a broad generalization about what makes up the "real American woman." However, this is a generalization I can feel confident making: I'm sure most Dutch women live their lives very far outside the realm of the fashion industry - not a very "real" place or a place that's open to "real" women. Sure, this is a small country, but it's a country with people from many different backgrounds, not just the blonde-haired, blue-eyed ancestry that the author discusses. I've met many people in my short time here who don't fit that stereotype but who still consider themselves to be "real Dutch." I would assume someone with 10 years under his belt in this country would have noticed that as well. Let's get away from the tired, mythological picture of the blonde Dutch girl picking tulips and embrace the diverse culture of this country - only then will you get close to something real.
Sorry! I made a mistake in my comment because I hastily read the author's bio - he did 10 years in Paris, not The Netherlands. But my point still stands. You don't have to be here long to notice the diversity of this country and see the impossibility in trying to lump an entire gender into one description.
The Dutch tourist board should use this as sales propaganda for gullible men.
"Come to the Netherlands! ... there are women ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE! ... and they all look a bit like Lara Stone! ... and do they "like to party?" - well, lets just say they're not conservative at all, nudge nudge, wink wink!"
True. Even though (as a rule) Dutch women share some specific characteristics, tagging people is simply out of question. Personally, I do not think that Matt had any intention to do so; I prefer to stick to facts such as that Dutch women "wear less makeup," "are approachable, friendly and easy to talk to" etc.
But see, I've run into lots of Dutch women wearing makeup. Should I then make that generalization? And even so, what purpose does that serve? There are definitely things that make this culture as a whole different from others, but commentaries on such are always going to be subjective and should come with the disclaimer: "I live in my own bubble, as do most people, so this is only from my perspective and not meant to represent Dutch people as a whole because I could never accurately do that."
This is an interesting article on Dutch women published by Slate recently and deals with more quantifiable data: http://www.slate.com/id/2274736/
This article is really along the same lines as the "Most British women are ugly" which was recently in the media. All British people get insanely drunk and disorderly too and all people from Essex are sluts... See you have to laugh really.
Not to mention I quote from the above article:
"Carin and Sonja agree that Kroes and Stone carry themselves well and are prime examples of homegrown beauty (even though Stone is reported to have an English father)"
Well she is one lucky girl! You'd have thought having an English father would have set her back a bit!
OK this article is mainly a positive generalisation for once, but some parts are contradicting. Don't you think it is slightly mindless if Dutch people (I presume mainly school children) are judging each other by the colour of their hair?!? What else are they judging each other by if it stoops this low?? the colour of their skin? their nationality?
To be honest I am going to generalise now too (shoot me) but many people here don't want to know you unless you are Dutch! That is NOT open minded!
The following is a part of a real conversation I was in with a Dutch person who was looking for a school for her child. She said she waited outside at home time when the kids were leaving and saw that nearly all the children were blonde so it must be a good school.... good for what?? Inbreeding?
As for been aggressive...don't even get me started on this topic, I find most of the women I encounter to be extremely passive!! They might dash about elbowing and budging whoever they like (which is not a display of confidence BTW, it is just plain damn rude and having no consideration for anyone else) But the moment you confront them they will run away and refuse to enter into a debate about their behavior. They have never been taught how to dispute things on a normal level, confrontation/discussion/resolving issues is never a strong point. They seem to think it is better to just ignore the person and get on with their selfish little lives.
In my opinion this is the result of a spoilt upbringing where the child is allowed to do whatever they want without discussion or rules being set in place. Of course if you are allowed to do and get away with anything you like as a child, you will expect that as an adult too.
Again, that's a big generalisation and just to end my little rant, I do know some very beautiful blonde AND brunette, confident and easy going Dutch women and if EVERYONE was like them then this article would true and I am sure Holland would be perfect. But it is not..
"Carin said," "Sonja ... pointed out," "Carin and Sonja agree that," "Helen ... said," "Regina ... said," "Silvana ... disagreed," "Annet ... said," "Marlaan said," ... Still believe that the above are personal observations mixed with some women's comments.
Not even with the use of quantifiable data can someone mirror ALL Dutch women; that is why Jessica states for example "less than 10 percent of women here..."
I really do not think that anyone could state something like "All Italians love pizza." There must be some who don't.
Everyone loves pizza! That is a stereotype I am confident in making ;)
I get what you're saying and as a journalist I understand that by picking and choosing sources to interview I am immediately inserting a bias into the article no matter how hard I try to show all sides of an issue. But I would avoid writing an article that stereotypes or objectifies appearances and if I sensed my sources were doing so I would cut those quotes or find a more diverse batch of sources (which is in its own way biasing the article, but that's a whole new ball of wax). It's one thing to write a trend piece about, say, teen cell phone use in The Netherlands, and another about how most British women are ugly (as lisswin mentioned).
I am certainly interested in other expat views on Dutch personalities, because I've definitely noticed things myself that I am planning on writing about in the future. I guess, as a feminist, I take a bit of issue with the idea that this sexy, blonde, uninhibited woman is the "real Dutch woman." I'd like to hear more about Dutch women and their ideas about gender roles and "real issues" rather than the usual "dumb blonde, smart brunette" stuff. Matt starts to hit on this a bit at the beginning, but then the article spirals a bit into commentary about appearances.
Hello All, It's good to get feedback on the subject. The article states in the lead that it's presenting particular viewpoints, including about 20 other women that I interviewed in Amsterdam and Alkmaar. Any opinions of my own are evidently from that of a newcomer. I believe that people who have lived in an area for a long time may not recognize things that make them special from other people. Someone just arriving may see these things more clearly.
I will post the sex ratio population statistics for Alkmaar when available, but it certainly feels like the men are outnumbered here. And, I do find it interesting as well if there is a social status attached to being blonde in an area where many have the same color. Rod Stewart says there's a difference!
I find Sonja's viewpoints quite relevant, because she initially declined to participate in the article because she has been living internationally and has not been in-country for a while. I value input that can compare differences. Other opinions, like the comments posted here, about characteristics of Dutch women are welcome. Perhaps what's left - if anything - to agree on could be called at least partially accurate. Caroline Brothers has an interesting article about Dutch Women on the New York Times Web site:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/arts/06iht-happy.1.6024209.html?_r=1
Many women I talked to said she had it right on a number of items.
As for the word "Real" in the title, I think Dutch women are very real. They are honest and less materialistic than many people I've met in the U.S. and France. The women, as most Dutch people I've met so far, are a fun bunch to be around. I would be betraying my goal of this article - to provide a fun physical and behavioral perspective - if I tried to define the exact characteristics of a given people. Do see the the women who are speaking in the article on the lunaholland blog page. Cheers -
In ref to:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/arts/06iht-happy.1.6024209.html?_r=1
No wonder prostitution was made legal, the poor guys have to have something nice to look forward to when they have macho women bossing them about all the time....
And forgive me if I am wrong but is this interview also with some type of model or want to be model? I refer to this section..
"We are seen as very tough," de Bruin said in a recent conversation in Amsterdam, before cycling off to a class in runway walking to learn how to balance in high heels."
WTF??
Real Feminist will respond to this thread. Period.
Any objections to the article are nothing to do with Feminism. Which I'm sure johnnybravo knows full well and is just trying to be inflammatory by using a word which broadly is meaningless these days but is guaranteed to annoy people.
The objections I'd say are more due to the ludicrous sweeping generalisations and the suggestion that Real Dutch Women are only those with a long dutch ancestory, hence tall, blues eyes, blonde hair etc. Yes of course there are women like that in The Netherlands. Sometimes I do feel like a midget on an over-sized bicycle. But I'm also acutely aware that I have Dutch female friends of myriad sizes colour shapes and backgrounds. It's safe to say that, even though they may be 5 ft 0 and of Chinese distant ancestry that they're "real dutch."
Maybe the author would care to even the playing field with an article on Real Dutch men? - I certainly know I've seen 6ft 4 slick-haired adonises everywhere ...
Dutch women seem to care more about fashion and how they look than most places that I have been. They are also not a strong force in the workplace compared to many other countries including America (check out this link: http://www.slate.com/id/2274736 ).
They certainly are tall, beautiful and direct though.
Althought that's true, there was in facto a basis for truth in my statment if you read carefully the first comments.
Generalisations, stereotypes, and opinions based on numbers, are a way to help survive in this insane world now, and like happened ever. Denying simple knowledge from daily experience doesn't make any sense but I agree that what matters to me, might not matter to you, and a pint of common sense should be used in this kind of articles. In last case, go out, and check for your self. :)
I actually think its a lively piece and an interesting topic - you can agree with it or not but congrats to the author for stirring up debate!
I'm glad to see a healthy debate going on the subject. I think most people understand that I was not trying to define the global socio-nature of a culture/people. And yes the article is written by me "a man," but also with input from my French wife, and it features voices from only women. I tried to have some fun, yes fun, while addressing the "wow" factor that many of our visitors from Paris and the U.S. have experienced when they visited Alkmaar for the first time and saw the high ratio of tall blondes.
Either way it makes for a fun debate. And yes, please come up to Alkmaar and have a look around the city center businesses and pubs in the evenings. Of course I realize that people come in all colors, shapes and smells. I'm writing off the percentage of a given type of person in this area.
MillyN suggested to write about Dutch men. Well, I was told recently by a Dutch woman that the city of Delft has many more men than women. I haven't been there yet to see, but perhaps there's an article on Real Dutch Men waiting to be written from a woman's standpoint. Something like, "Dutch men are all tall, like to drink beer and ice skate...." Could be fun to try to hang some general labels on the men.
I was also happy to see JohnnyBravo come back to say more after dropping a little bomb last night with his short comment. I should point out to Milly that Mary called herself a feminist in her post, "I guess, as a feminist,..."
So is the article like a touristy beer commercial for men? I hope it doesn't seem that way. I believe it's more like a snapshot of an interesting and pretty subject. Obviously my lens is not wide enough to capture the ENTIRE scene, but I think it's a fun (there's that word again "fun") look with at least some social relevancy. Best -
P.S. I know this is an expat site, but I would love to hear from some Dutch women.
Yeah, and guess what's the best part of it: A lot of them are lesbians and don't care about your stereotyping at all! :o)
I always enjoy taking the time to read the comments when it comes to this type of articles. It only goes full circle upon reading the opinion exchange and insights underneath the article itself.
Now, how about an article on the Dutch males? ;-)
ha, it's funny the different impressions we all get! My experience has been that Dutch women are far less interested in fashion or makeup than women in other countries, opting for the most comfortable/utilitarian outfits instead of trends.
I also find that they (and their male counterparts) are more materialistic than people I know in the states, though it may manifest differently they may not be given to ostentatious displays of wealth, but most activities they're involved in are directly or indirectly related to enhancing their CV and longterm earning potential.
As for the 6'4" adonises, I really like Dutch guys' lack of aggressiveness when it comes to flirting, though it can be a little confusing if you do like a guy and are used to them approaching you. :)
I'm a Dutch woman...20 years young , blond, 1,75 m, down to earth, aggresive in the way of ambitions, i'm not conservative but I have principles... I'm not a slut, don't smoke weed and don't party all the time..
I'm not a dramaqueen and absolutely not materialistic (My cellphone not even can make pictures and I wear jeans of 20 euro, even like shoes... and al friends and everybody I know hate the show "my super sweet 16")
What he described isn't weird at all... We are an internationall country... and almost 75 % of my friends female friends are blondes....Amsterdam is unbelievable multiculteral and one big fashionresort.. but seriously, if you are going to a little city or village, you see a lot of blondes. But believe me: not all the blondes are pretty. If a blond woman is pretty, she is amazingly pretty, but if a blond woman is "ugly" she is really ugly. But we are average tall, and have a specific bonestructure what is loved by a lot of men... but I don't think there are relative more beautiful women in Holland then in Germany or Poland or something... In the model industry are dutch woman wanted cause the lenght and the face because it's very easy to use..
Right now you've heard something from a dutch woman... we are not stereotypes, but for the average woman he is in the right kind.
(I'm sorry for my bad english)
LOL!
Ok let me see if I got this straight.
Dutch are Bitchy, Aggressive, Opinionated and mostly Blond.
Hung up on Feminism and want to dominate men.
Does not sound like a place any sane MAN would want to hang out unless he is ether gay, or in to BDSM.
About the Author
Matt Luna